2v2 Guide By Jason Stover

Human and Orc in 2 vs. 2:

Unfortunately I donít have the time to go into detail about all the match ups and what to do during tier 1, 2, and 3, but I will summarize what units to get in the different match ups.

Hu/orc vs ud/ne

Option #1 Counter Mass: Pally(if you arenít getting nuked constantly get devotion aura) and Riflemen. TC(go stomp, unless they go ghouls/archers which is unlikely) and Grunts.
If you do this option the Orc needs to get 2 barracks so he can provide a sufficient meat shield for the Hu. If the Hu goes 2 barracks he needs to expo at some point otherwise the UD tech advantage will prove too much. If the Hu does not get 2 barracks and has a good rifle build then go 1 sanctum and 1 workshop for mortars and casters at tier 2. This should be enough to help you finish the game before you have to deal with mass UD tier 3.
Option #2 Cookie Cutter Style
HU: AM 1st (start with foots), MK 2nd (add some casters), Pally 3rd (add knights and upgrade knight/breaker armor)
ORC: BM (grunts and harass NE at start to kill 2nd aow, or kill wisps), TC or SH 2nd (TC aura is more beneficial, but if you find they are low level then nuke might be best. Get a few raiders, then mass weyvern.)
The key to the success of this strategy is that you expo once you obtain an advantage. In my opinion if you can survive the initial mass push they do without becoming too crippled or letting them expo then the game will usually go your way. The best way to win with this style of play is to delay the NEís ability to mass and after the Human reaches level 2 AM then he needs to prevent the UD from creeping as best he can. By doing this the UD will be forced to hit later if he tries to get level 3 or hit with only a level 2 DK which cannot heal his fiends as effectively.

Hu/orc vs UD/Orc

Option #1 Hu: Pally rifles to start and add casters and gryphs later. If additional nuke is needed add an MK at tier 2 and learn storm bolt to nuke that annoying DK. Orc: TC only with Stomp, unless you are facing ghouls and archers, then it might be wise to get shock wave. If the human can provide sufficient anti air go spirit walker tauren, otherwise have the Human get knights at tier 3 and get raiders spirit walkers and tauren later.
Option #2
HU: Am 1st (get foots and obtain level 2 asap, then go harass a bit and switch to rifles after 3-6 footmen). Mk 2nd (rifles only at this point and get 1 sanctum for a few sorcs quick and breakers and priests for dispel and better nuke), Pally 3rd (on your way to tier 3 you should put up a gryph aviary and produce gryphs to counter the raiders, grunts, aboms, and tauren you might face.) ORC: FS 1st (get 4-5 grunts and harass the orc or UD right away), TC 2nd (get grunt, raiders, and spirit walkers and add in tauren a little later for better meat to replace grunts. If the hu cannot provide sufficient anti air, then get some bats to help counter destroyers.)
There is really one major exception to option number 2 and that is if the orc on the other team tries to go straight to tauren and gets casters of some kind. If you scout the orc at tier 2 and he does not have a beastiary, the orc on your team should put up 2 beastiaries and get mass weyvern with a few raiders. The hu should get 2 sanctums at tier 2 and pump rifles so you have the max amount of units possible at tier 2. By doing this you can have the weyvern kill the orcís burrows at tier 2 and you can end the game before you have to deal with tauren and fiends/destroyers.
If you are at a fairly large disadvantage because of a weak early game and the orc on the UD/ORC team is going tauren then you should do the same. Get spirit walkers and tauren and do not get raiders, let your Human partner get sorcs, rifles, and griffs to counter the tauren and such.


HU: AM 1st (footmen only), MK 2nd (1 sanctum and tech to tier 3), Pally 3rd (Get gyros if the orc cannot provide sufficient anti air, gryphs if you need anti melee, mortars if you need anti caster, and most importantly add knights for meat shield.)
ORC: BM 1st (Grunts), TC or SH 2nd (Raiders and Weyvern to counter fiends, casters, and melee once you kill their anti air.), SH or TC 3rd (which ever hero you did not get at tier 2 you might as well get at tier 3, also, learn envenomed spears, get a kodo with the war drums upgrade, and add in Tauren if your partner has an expo).
Basically human and UD have a really weak early game, especially vs. the very synergistic combination of Human and Orc. So either fast expo with the Human since the UD will have a late hero, or expo once you get an advantage early game (such as tier 2). As the Human upgrade your armor on your melee and get a staff on your paladin at tier 3 and the meat shield will be very hard to kill. If the Hu and UD attempt to get gryphs and destroyers, add in a workshop and mass gyros because they counter destroyers and gryphs very effectively with weyv and bats from your orc partner. With this done, you will have a better ground army because knights do very well vs. fiends and you will easily out number the Hu ground if he went air as well. The key is expoing once you have an advantage because Hu and UD are very strong late game together, but their weak early game makes up for that, so no worries.


Option #1
HU: Pally 1st (go straight rifles, but only 1 barracks), MK 2nd (Get 1 sanctum and get a few sorcs, but mainly priests and breakers), Blood Mage 3rd (Since Pally and MK are good at killing UD heroes, get banish and add to your nuking power. If you need anti melee, get knights or gryphs, or if you need more anti air, get dhawks or gyros. Perhaps most importantly get a staff of preservation so you can help save heros and units against nuke.)
ORC: TC 1st (Grunts, best reason for getting TC is because it helps the attack speed of grunts and rifles drastically, which will make sure you do not lose fights early game vs. 2 UD. I suggest getting shockwave if 1 or both are going ghouls and stomp if both are getting fiends, plus that will help with nuke early on.), SH 2nd (get hex and heal for obvious reasons, 1. to kill fiends and heros with hex, and 2. to heal so you can keep your TC and Pally alive. Get raiders for fiends, and weyvern for anti air and killing ghouls/fiends.)
Option #2
HU: AM 1st (foots to start, switch to rifles early and harass as soon as you are level 2), MK 2nd (add in 1 sanctum for sorcs and tech tier 3), Pally 3rd (get a staff of preservation, gryphs for anti melee and nuke, Gyros or dhawks if you need more anti air, and knights if you need a better meat shield.)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts and harass right away to keep the UDís from leveling their heroes), SH 2nd (for improved nuke at tier 2 so your Hu partner can expo easily, get raiders to counter fiends, and start getting a lot of weyvern for anti air and kodos if they only have a few aboms), TC 3rd (if your hu partner has an expo he can feed you some gold and you should get shockwave and tauren if the Hu needs a meat shield.)
The main key to success with this combination of races is that 2 UD if they go fiends will both have late heros, so with an AM you can easily fast expand and get a large economic advantage right away. However, the UDís are likely to expand at the start as well so you need to be vigilant for this. If you decide not to expand right away, then tech up quickly and get your 2nd heros out because bolt and hex will let you dominate tier 2 and then you can expo easily, unless you had a very bad early game. The key is to make sure you do not let the UDís get mass air, so get gyros, rifles, and weyv if needed. The most important part is protecting your heros and that is why going tier 3 and getting a 3rd hero for both players can be very helpful in stopping all the hero nuke. Since most UDís get tri hero, it is wise to do the same, unless you decide to go solo pally and TC which can out level them fairly easily. Regardless, just make sure you scout often and keep pressure on the UDís so they canít level up their heroes and so they donít surprise you with a unit combo youíre not ready for.


Option #1: Cookie Cutter
HU: AM 1st (foots to start, switch to rifles after 3-6 footmen), MK or BM (blood mage) 2nd (get a sanctum and a workshop, or two sanctums)
ORC: Bm 1st (grunts), TC or SH 2nd (raiders, spirit walkers, and possibly catapults)
For this option it is almost better for the human to get 2 sanctums because if you need mortars or long-ranged siege then the orc can get catapults from his barracks. However, if you do get a workshop, then get gyros if you face fairy dragons, and get 2+ morts for killing spirit walkers and dryads/hunts. They key to winning with this style is to buy scrolls of protection and healing because generally orc and human just need to out last their opponents in a fight, they arenít a very good hit and run combo like night elf and orc or night elf and undead. After you have a catapult or mort and a 2nd on the way it is a good time to hit, counting that you have a few sorcs, a few priests, and a few breakers with everything else. To improve your chances of winning bring workers along (militia and peons) and buy ivory towers so you can tower up the base you are going to attack. This makes for a very strong tier 2 push, but if it fails your odds of winning arenít so high any more.
The other variation of this is to expand at tier 2 when you get your 2nd heroes and creep cautiously and camp it out until you out number your opponents.
Option #2: Tod/Grubby new school style
HU: AM 1st (foots only), naga 2nd (go straight to tier 3 and build a black smith and workshop), Pally 3rd (get morts, knights, and a staff of preservation)
ORC: Bm 1st (grunts), TC 2nd (raiders, grunts and spirit walkers)
Against orc and night elf teams that love their tier 2 combos of units with grunt, raiders, spirit walkers, hunts, and dryads the morts will work perfectly. This strategy is highly reliant on the human macroing well and getting tier 3 ASAP. Even if the orc adds some kodos to his army to devour your knights, the breakers will be able to kill them. This strategy will work best on maps where expanding is very difficult to do, as well as creeping. If you have good staff micro then this match up wonít be very difficult for you because most night elf and orc teams do not adapt until it is too late and you are killing their base with morts.


HU: AM 1st (foots only), MK 2nd (1 sanctum get some priests and get breakers if the Hu tries to mass sorcs. Build a workshop and a blacksmith while teching to tier 3.), Pally 3rd (Buy a staff of preservation, train knights and mortars with exploding shards upgrade.)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts), SH 2nd (a few raiders, then get mass weyvern)
To clarify a few things, the reason you do not get rifles against this combo is the ineffectiveness of rifles against defend and breakers which you almost guaranteed will face. It is best for the Hu to get knights because the night elf usually will get bears and a tier 3 melee unit will be much better later in the game than the tier 1 grunts and tier 2 kodos you can produce. The morts are useful for killing dryads, breakers (with shards upgrade), and casters. The whole point of the orc massing weyvern is to ensure that your team can survive a tier 2 push and survive to tier 3 for the tri hero, morts, and knights the human will produce. Also, with the orc getting air, it prevents the human opponent from making gryphons to counter your melee and mortars. It might be wise for both of you to put up a tower if you feel you are at a large disadvantage and may lose on a tier 2 push, or be damaged more than a tier 3 human can make up for. The main thing you should watch for in this match up is an expo from the opposing human player, however, with good macro, you should get mortars out early enough to take down the expo before your opponents out number you drastically.


Option #1: Cookie Cutter
HU: AM 1st (footmen to start, switch to rifles after 3-6 footmen), MK 2nd (2 Sanctum get 3-6 sorcs, 2-4 priests, and the rest breakers and rifles)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts), SH or TC 2nd (raiders, spirit walkers, kodos, and demolishers)
There are a few things I would like to highlight about this match up. The first is that scouting against 2 NE is of the utmost importance because it dictates what you should do early, whether that being creeping or attacking you need to verify. If both the night elves go hunts, then your best option is to have the human tower him with 4-5 militia and just pump foots while the orc gets grunts and techs up to raiders and other units that may aid your team later.
If you are playing against one who goes hunts and the other who goes archers then a tower rush will have less chance of working early game and you should probably have the orc harass the night elf going hunts right away while the human gets level 2 AM and switches to rifles ASAP.
If they both go archers then your best bet is to stick with mass melee to start and get defend once your arch mage is level 2. Also, one or both of you should get boots and dust of appearance so you can push archers back and kill as many as you can early. If both of the night elves go archers then it is really not wise to bother doing a tower rush early unless you get a quick advantage and will be able to get up quite a few towers while you are fighting their armies.
If hero levels stay very low early game then it is probably best that the orc gets hex with the shadow hunter so you can use bolt/hex to heroes off. Otherwise it is better to get tauren chieftain because his aura helps increase the total damage out put of your army drastically by boosting grunts and rifles attack speed up to fast. As the night elves get dryads you should mainly be producing rifles, raiders, and demolishers. When the night elves start getting bears you should get mainly breakers, sorcs, and kodos. If the night elves get fairy dragons then get bats and focus them with riflemen. If the night elves are dumb enough to get dotts then breakers, rifles, and demolishers will easily handle this problem.
This strategy, as you can probably guess, is strongest mid-game when you have several tier 2 units and that is why it is so important to take advantage of this tier 2 strength. If you continue creeping and do not either expo or attack, then you will quickly find out how hard it can be to win against 2 tier 3 night elves or bears for that matter. You should either get an economic advantage by expoing, or attack and tower/siege one of the night elves who has a base easiest for setting up towers and with few areas that they can flank you.
Option #2:
HU: AM 1st (footmen only, get a guard tower if they mass hunts or tower rush them at the start), MK 2nd(tech right to tier 3 and build a workshop for morts and a sanctum for priests), Pally 3rd(get the staff of sanctuary, get the shards upgrade on your mortars, get knights, and learn master training for priests)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts), SH or TC 2nd (raiders to start, then mainly weyvern)
Unless both of the night elves go hunts, in which case you should tower them, you just need to wait the game out and reduce damage done to yourself while preventing them from out creeping you. It is important that you wait until you have several mortars and knights before attacking because you need a good meat shield to prevent your opponents from being able to reach your mortars easily and you need enough mortars to quickly kill off the dryads, dotts, hunts, and archers. The reason weyvern will work really well with this combo is because the mortars take care of all the ground anti air that might do a lot of harm to them. Also, dryads will have to constantly move around so as not to get destroyed by mortars, but this weakens their ability to avoid getting picked off by weyvern, as well as, their ability to focus fire them. This strategy will more or less allow you to control the air in a fight because bats can easily take care of fairy dragons and hippogriffs. This will leave all your weyvern alive with very little anti air to stop them, so they will be able to kill off bears without much resistance and force them to get anti air that is already countered by mortars, knights, and bats. Another thing to note is that serpent wards might not be a bad idea since most night elf units take extra damage from piercing and if you get mana burned down it is a cheap spell and can give you the edge in a fight.
On most maps this is your best choice because it has good late game potential and the best counter of expoing at tier 2 can be easily dealt with once you have sufficient mortars. The only other weakness is surviving tier 2, but mass weyvern can make up for your lack of tier 2 units enabling the human to get inner fire, knights, and mortars. Of course, the key to using this strategy effectively is making sure you pass around your staff to save knights, priests, and mortars and even weyvern if you can pass it to your ally. It is very important though that you keep them from out expoing and leveling you during that weak tier 2 time period. All the tier 3 units from the human will make for a significant advantage, but not if you are out populated or leveled significantly.
Option #3: Mass Casters
HU: AM 1st (footmen, switch to rifles ASAP), MK 2nd (rifles only now, 1 or 2 sanctums for sorcs, priests, and breakers, and a workshop if you rather have mortars than rifles), and Pally 3rd (get a staff and master casters if you go tier 3, but usually not necessary)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts), TC or SH 2nd (2 lodges for both master shaman and witch doctors), TC or SH 3rd optional (get master training on casters and get 1 tauren totem if money will permit, add in demolishers if the human does not get mortars)
This strategy can be very powerful, but if youíre not careful it can also get countered very hard and will lead to a quick demise. The main problem will be fairy dragons, which will prove to be mort of a pain than normal because the orc does not get a beastiary for bat riders. So basically, rifles are the best way to counter them or getting a few gyros if needed. The whole idea is for the orc to get master casters and the human to have a sufficiently mixed army of breakers, rifles, sorcs, and priests to push one of the night elves as soon as you have master training on your docs and shamans. This will work often times because most night elf teams will underestimate the effectiveness of the casters with the humanís units and will not get enough of a counter. Also, if you have fairy dragons countered properly then dryads will be unable to debuff your army for very long and it will make it much easier to micro against them. The only thing that is a real annoyance are mountain giants, but they are expensive and without a lot of dryads and fairy dragons they arenít much of a pain. This is probably my favorite option because you donít get to use orc casters everyday and it usually makes for a strong push because most night elves do not expect it.
Option #4
HU: AM (footmen to start, then get rifles after 3-6 footies), MK 2nd (rifles, get 2 sanctums and produce sorcs, priests, and breakers), and Pally 3rd (get a staff of sanctuary and master casters, although it is probably best to stick tier 2 as I will later explain)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts), TC or SH 2nd (shaman, go straight to tier 3), TC or SH 3rd optional (2 totems and learn blood lust)
I normally do not recommend teching to tauren because of how weak it may leave you, how expensive they are, and that you normally need to place totems in a safe place so they are not destroyed. If you can produce tauren as your meat shield and have sufficient anti air with rifles and blood lust then this is the ideal option because tauren are by far the best melee and with blood lust they have very high damage output. As I said already it is extremely important to make room in your base to allow for the totems to be built there. The reason this is one of the harder combos to pull off is because you cannot build totems until tier 3 and that means you will have tier 3 melee later than all other races. This becomes a disadvantage when you are unable to spend all of your gold because you cannot get both totems up because they are being destroyed. If you think it will be a problem constructing both of them in a safe place, then use your partners base to build one or both of them.
Another problem you might run into is a mass hunt rush or getting out expoed and creeped early because of mass hunts controlling the map. If you are being towered by night elves then you should have a war mill in progress to produce catapults, but if both your opponents went hunts then you should probably have towered them at the very beginning. Good night elf players will usually have 3-4 bears by the time you get 1 tauren out with pulverize so just do your best to hold off fighting until you have at least 3, unless your human partner has a lot of units to win the fight with. This combo of units is the hardest for night elves to stop later in the game, but because of the difficulty of being able to get up 2 totems and get master training uninterrupted I generally advise against doing this strategy.


Option #1: Cookie Cutter
HU: AM 1st (footmen only), MK 2nd (priests with dispel and breakers mainly), and Pally 3rd (optional, but if you do go tier 3 get knights, master training on preists, and a staff of sanctuary)
ORC: FS 1st (grunts), SH or TC 2nd (raiders, spirit walkers, and catapults)
The reason you should only get footmen is because of how badly aoe, orc melee, and foots terrorize rifles. Also, with speed scrolls and defend there is literally no way to out run footies with defend. The orcís hero choice should be based on army sizes and hero levels, if both hero levels and unit counts are low then SH is probably the better choice. If you go TC shockwave is generally the better choice because most of the humans units are low hp and stomp is not that effective vs. orc melee and breakers (obviously). This strategy in mirror is very strong if you push slightly after heal and defense scrolls are available and bring both your peons and a fair amount of militia to fight. If you do this then often times you can over power your enemy and end the game in about 15 minutes.
There are a few things you should watch for, however. One of the things to look out for is if the orc attempts to go tauren and builds a spirit lodge with no beastiaries. You need to take full advantage of this and either do the same and go tauren if you are at a disadvantage, or get 2 beastiaries. You should get 2 beastiaries because you can mass weyvern and a few raiders quick and with your human partner massing casters and breakers you will be able to take out the orcs burrows and prevent him from building totems. It is of the utmost importance that you scout right at tier 2 for this because if you do not see tauren coming it can be very devastating and will give your opponents a huge advantage. Your human partner might want to go gryphons along with his casters if you see this happening just to ensure that even if he gets some tauren out you can kill them off easily with grphons or at least devour a few of them with kodos.
If your opponents do the following strategy and the human gets knights, mortars, and priests then you should probably expo ASAP and attempt to out creep your opponents. You need to either end the game before the human can get this unit combo or get enough of an advantage to make the tier 3 units insignificant.
Option #2
HU: AM 1st (footmen only), MK 2nd (go tier 3 ASAP, get 1 sanctum, and 1 workshop), Pally 3rd (get a staff of sanctuary, knights, mortars with shards upgrade, and preists for inner fire and dispel, as well as, breakers for control magic)
ORC: FS 1st (grunts), TC or SH 2nd (raiders, spirit walkers, grunts, and kodos)
Once again you need to keep your enemies from gaining too significant of an advantage between tier 2 and tier 3 so that you can get out knights and mortars in time to make a difference. You and your partner should pressure your opponents after the human gets level 2. The orc should always harass as soon as his hero is out to keep your opponents from getting a quick level advantage, since heroes make more of a difference at the very beginning than later in the game. The only tier 2 counter your opponents will have are kodos, but with several mortars you should be able to kill them off and free your knights back into the battle very quickly. The mortars will also deal with raiders because of shards, casters, and kodos as already mentioned. The main obstacle of this strategy is surviving a tier 2 push, in which case building a guard tower may help, or getting out expoed and creeped.


Option #1
HU: AM 1st (foots), MK or Beast Master 2nd (2 sanctums for mass casters, mainly sorcs to start)
ORC: BM or FS 1st (grunts), SH 2nd (grunts, raiders, spirit walkers, kodos, and catapults for siege)
The main threat that 2 orcs might pose is mass hero targeting, but this can be solved by learning invisibility, getting heal on your shadow hunter, and hero targeting them in exchange. The only other threat you could face is mass weyvern, but being that you have an orc on your team and he has a beastiary there is no reason some bats, summons, and casters should not be able to handle them with ease. You basically want to end the game before either of your opponents gets a chance to mass tauren, because that quite literally is the only reasonable threat you face. However, with the strength of casters against orc and the effectiveness of demolishers and ivory towers a solid tier 2 push will end the game early and you wonít even have to worry about the tauren. If for some reason you do not think you can stop the tauren then you should get kodos, knights, and gryphons with inner fire to counter act the melee and ensure that your gryphons can survive against bats.
Option #2: Mass Casters
HU: AM 1st (foots, get rifles if anti air is needed), MK 2nd (get 2 sanctums for mass casters and tech to tier 3 if needed), and Pally 3rd (get inner fire, a staff of sanctuary, knights if better melee is needed, control magic for wards and summons, and gryphons if desired)
ORC: BM 1st (grunts), TC or SH 2nd (2 spirit lodges and go tier 3 ASAP), TC or SH 3rd optional (learn master training on witch doctors and shaman, and get tauren if you need better melee, or bats if you need anti air)
The biggest threat you will face is mass weyvern because the orc on your team skips getting a beastiary in order to learn master training on docs and shamans. If you have enough rifles then blood lust will be enough to make sure your rifles are sufficient anti air against mass weyvern. As you probably know orc does not have a very good counter to mass casters so this strategy will work fairly well if you can get master training on at least 2 casters and do not fall behind too far in hero levels or food. Against double orc teams that cookie cut this strategy will come as a surprise to them and they will find that they have insufficient anti magic to stop you. It is a fun strategy, but if they catch you doing it then mass weyvern can be very hard to stop without bats.


HU: AM 1st (footmen only 6-8 of them, unless you fast expo), MK 2nd (go tier 3 ASAP and get 1 sanctum for mainly breakers and perhaps a few priests), and Pally 3rd (Buy a staff of sanctuary, get knights, research control magic, and get gryphons)
ORC: FS or BM 1st (grunts), TC 2nd (build 2 beastiaries and get a few raiders, then produce mass weyvern)
The whole idea of this unit combo is to have the mass breakers counter any slow that might keep the orc from being able to fight the humans effectively. It will also give you more units to fight with at tier 2 until you have knights and gryphons later in the game. Normally the humans would just go dragon hawks and rifles to counter your air units, but knights, grunts, and raiders will take care of the rifles while bats can kill the dragon hawks. So basically you will be able to control the air and that will allow you to kill their knights, foots, and casters very easily. The weyvern are there to kill casters and to make sure they do not try to produce mass air to counter you. However, being that you started producing mass weyvern right at the start of tier 2 you should have enough air to counter whatever they plan. This is probably the easiest 2ís counter to double human teams there is in the game because of how easy it is to control the air.
There are two main things to watch for in this match up, which are mass casters with mass summons and an expo. If you see both of your human opponents going 2 sanctums and getting mass summons it might be a good idea to get 2 sanctums of your own and get a lot of breakers and priests while still teching to tier 3. Once you do have tier 3 you can learn control magic and deal with the summons by taking them over. If you do not keep a close eye on your human opponents they will sneak in an expo and tower it up to the point where you will lose your advantage if you attack it. The biggest tip I can give to any team playing against 2 humans is to always watch for expos and be ready to have your human build one the second you see them attempting it.